Getting American's to sympathize or understand the Palestinian situation in light of our current American-funded, supported and serving presence in all the wars and campaigns across the mid-east, is going to be an uphill battle.
How can there be any moral outrage at 'civilian casualties' when our own drone attacks have produces countless innocent casualties?
In his first term in office, Obama has already authorized 283 strikes in Pakistan, six times more than the number during President George W. Bush's eight years in office.
I feel that the perception by most Americans about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is that it's just another example of terrorists terrorizing our allies.
If you simply set the 700 rockets fired into civilian areas in 2012 by Hamas and/or other militants against the U.S. Military like 'surgical strikes' of Israel, Americans are never going to side with the Palestinians.
Obama was reelected, even though the election season and debates didn't spend hardly anytime on true debate or factual presentation of war, innocent causalities and the matters of foreign policy.
Our electorate spent countless hours on policies about sex, marriage and pot. They don't care about Palestinians, anymore than they care about Afghani's or Pakistani's, no matter how the conflict is framed or defended, even if it's given with a pro-Palestinian angle.
Obama supports Israel and Americans support Obama.
Sam Fletcher | Nov 15, 2012 | 1:06pm
I was going to disagree with you, but I looked at DailyKos, and there’s not one mention. The Huffington Post is going nuts with coverage of the war and the civilian deaths and injuries, so there’s that. The Democrats do not want to face up to the outrage.
Dennis | Nov 15, 2012 | 7:38pm
Eric, why should we side with the Palestinians? The Arab world wants to anihilate Israel. Palestinians are being used as pawns and shields by cowardly terrorists, killing Israeli citizens. With all the land in the Arab world surely there is enough for their Arab brothers to share with the Palestinians rather than have to steal the tiny bit of land (much less than the Lord Jesus Christ will eventually return to them) the Israelis must live in. If we were getting rocket attacks in Texas, California, or any of the nothern states, from across our border would we just slough it off? No!
Dennis | Nov 15, 2012 | 7:42pm
After some more thought, we should try to protect innocent, peace loving Palestinians, but how is that accomplished when you have such cowards firing rockets and using innocent civilians as shields. The best solution would be to be able to kill all the terrorists and let those who want to live in peace do so. It’s a tough, ugly world we live in.
Bruce | Nov 15, 2012 | 7:44pm
From my standpoint there’s plenty of outrage, but what can anybody do about it? After a while you realize it’s a situation that’s impossible to solve, so you just don’t pay attention anymore. It’s like that Star Trek episode with the two black/white and white/black brothers who will be at each others throats for all eternity.
Kevin R. Vixie | Nov 15, 2012 | 8:13pm
Hi Eric,
I agree with your sentiments. I think that the problem is ignorance. You can find the story of my road to understanding on these issues here: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/01/i-better-not-call-betty-my-long-path-to-unreasonable-optimism-about-the-conflict.html
Another story is the one told by Rich Forer in his book “Breakthrough: transforming fear into compassion”: http://www.richardforer.com/the-book/
——-
There is a deeper lesson that has been largely overlooked: the story of Israel is the story of us all because it is the story of humanity trying to save itself by its own strength, and the wreckage that results from that mission. It is the opposite of grace, of the letting, of the complete abandonment to trust that is the door to full freedom and rich creativity and life.
When we try to save ourselves instead of letting God save us, somebody always pays a terrible price. Though we eventually discover that we have not saved ourselves, it is often those around us that pay a heavy price first, as we shift the pain to others in our attempts to escape the growing discomfort and pain.
Eric Blauer | Nov 16, 2012 | 11:03am
With over 420 rockets fired from the Gaza Strip that have hit southern Israel in the past two days, I understand the Israeli offensive. But this conflict is far deeper than who threw the first punch. My post was trying to poke at the fact of the general American disinterest, not necessarily whose more justified.
I don’t think there are many nations that would endure what Israel or the Palestinians have endured.
My interest isn’t in taking sides but in hearing from both sides and holding American interests as expressed by mass media and the whitehouse accountable to truth not propaganda from either side.
Alan Eschenbacher | Nov 16, 2012 | 1:53pm
Someone will have to take the first leap of “loving the other”. Will Israel or Palestine be the one? It seems unlikely at this time, I understand both sides, of course we would not stand by while someone fired rockets into our land, on the other hand one of the clear facts in this story is that this is not a fair fight. Israel may be smaller and surrounded by its enemies but it is WAY more powerful. For example; Hamas fires a non guided rocket at Jerusalem and it misses everything and lands in an empty field outside town, Israel uses a laser guided precision bomb to surgically hit a moving car and take out the Hamas leader. Regardless of who you support, this is not a battle that will be fought on equal terms. Israel’s strength balances being outnumbered and surrounded, I guess. Bottom line: Unless one side decides to show some mercy, humility, or forgiveness for past atrocities their will be no peace.
Hanane | Nov 17, 2012 | 6:03pm
Dennis,
Your comment is pathetic and speaks from a zionist min-set… You want the arab brothers to share their lands with the palestinians who need to give up their land? are you SERIOUS!!!??
Why don’t you get out of your home when a thief takes it from you? are gonna be a terrorist and defend you right to your home…
Who’s the terrorist in this conflict?
Here is an alternative news source for you:
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/dissecting-idf-propaganda-the-numbers-behind-the-rocket-attacks.html#comments
http://www.ifamericansknew.org
Tracy Simmons | Nov 18, 2012 | 3:35pm
@Hanane - thank you for the links. Very powerful!
Joe Newby | Nov 19, 2012 | 5:52pm
Eric, I think people are far more interested in the conflict than you might think, but the support I’m seeing is for Israel. Let’s not forget that Hamas is a terrorist organization backed and supplied by Iran, a regime that has openly declared its desire to see Israel wiped off the map.
If the Palestinians want sympathy, they need to do three things - stop launching Iranian missiles into Israel, recognize Israel’s right to exist and meet at the negotiating table in good faith.
But that presents another question: What do you say to people who want you dead? Please stop killing us? Really?
This battle has been going on for thousands of years, and I doubt anything anyone on earth says or does will make much of a difference. Just my .02 worth.
Eric Blauer | Nov 19, 2012 | 6:22pm
Joe,
Hamas & other possible terrorist groups, Iran and Egypt are behind or supporting Palestinian activities. But do you think those action reflect all people groups in Palestine?
Do you think the defining borders, and claiming land that is occupied may result in retaliation?
Do you think this type of activity is worth American tax payer money?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=iPWi6x8HshM&desktop;_uri=/watch?v=iPWi6x8HshM
Aaron Weidert | Nov 19, 2012 | 8:57pm
“This is not a conflict of equals. There is no “both sides must.” There is a side fighting for its life under fire, and another set on sowing death. This is a one-sided massacre.”
http://transitions.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/11/19/this_is_not_a_fresh_take_on_gaza
I’m sick to death of hearing about “Palestinian terrorists. Yes, they absolutely exist. They kill Israeli civilians. It’s absolutely horrible. But when one of them bombs an Israeli coffee shop, and the Israeli response is to use U.S. support to shell a Palestinian police station, we’re not exactly on the moral high ground. But the article I posted nails exactly what we seem to be forgetting: THERE AREN’T TWO LEGITIMATE SIDES TO THIS! Yes, Hamas is messed up, and twisted, and horrible. But go ahead and compare budgets here. Compare shots fired back and forth. This is roughly like comparing the actions of the Black Panther Party during the Civil Rights Movement to the U.S. government. It’s absurd to make comparisons and talk about how “both sides” need to come together. That’s like saying that an abusive parent and a child are somehow equal, and that “both sides” of that situation need to come together.
Eric Blauer | Nov 20, 2012 | 7:36am
Aaron, I read the article and thought it was very well done, thanks for sharing it.
A question:
Do you think Hamas is helping or hurting the Palestinian people and cause?
Aaron Weidert | Nov 20, 2012 | 7:58am
Eric, I think Hamas is destroying the Palestinian cause, at least from the context of international sympathy/support, which is a really big deal when you’re in a position where you’re so overmatched, powerwise. It’s really tragic and ugly, for everyone.
Eric Blauer | Nov 20, 2012 | 8:05am
Hanane thanks for the links, there is some important info and perspective shared in those posts. I passed the info along via other sites.
I appreciate your info but I think your handling of Dennis undermines your ability to educate. I think Dennis reflects a position that most Americans share by educated and informed means or absorption via mass media.
I know people dying should be a discussion that’s passionate but I think disdain and disrespect further inflames and justifies people’s positions.
Dennis, I think your characterization of those who oppose policies or positions of Israel was purposefully provoking and painfully insensitive to the suffering of innocents.
Jesus followers are called to be “peace makers” and I hope that we will lead the way in bringing strategic plans and prophetic accountability to all in the name of peace and protection of the innocents on both sides.
Dennis | Nov 20, 2012 | 9:24am
Eric, thanks for the rebuke, I need it from time to time. I think the disinterest comes partly from the fact that these conflicts have gone on for so long. You get de-sensitized after so much of anything.
Another factor that needs the light of day is the tactics used by the terrorists, not the Palestinian people. They use their own people as human shields, making sure to fire rockets from positions in the middle of civilian homes, knowing that the only hope Israel has of stopping the killing of their own people may kill innocent civilians. This is a cowardly terrorist tactic that insures maximum sympathy for the terrorists and the ability to demonize Israel for protecting their own innocent families and children. What would you do?
Eric Blauer | Nov 20, 2012 | 10:08am
Dennis,
I appreciate your posture and the way it seems you’ve been able to be bold in your opinions but are becoming more and more accessible to people and their responses and thoughts in this ongoing work of dialogue and debate.
I ask the same questions and want better answers from pro-Palestinian people. I think the suffering of innocents is sometimes a easy out for both sides. Of course people don’t want children to die but we are often unwilling to talk about how that could stop.
It seems like vengeance is the leading edge in this conflict.
I can look at dead bodies on both sides. I can look at video of Palestinian parents pushing their kids to taunt, belittle, and threaten Israeli soldiers and I can look at pictures of Israeli kids writing messages on missiles about to be launched into Gaza.
Video’s like this one, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=iPWi6x8HshM&nomobile=1) show me that the gospel is deeply needed in this ongoing conflict and maybe the failure in much of this issue lies at the feet of the followers of Jesus.
We American’s are funding the conflict, 3 billion dollars is a lot of American tax payer money. Could we press for peace through our own economic pressure within our country? Could Christians rally for righteousness and protect for peace in ways that hold our own government accountable for their use of our money?
Could we show some kind of Kingdom example that bridges nationalism and reaches and preaches a message that isn’t pro-Israel or pro-America…but pro-humanity?
God’s promise’s extend to Isaac and Ishmael. God’s love and offer for peace is extended to all, and to me it seems that the voice and action of American Christians is often swallowed up by our foreign policy.
I think Palestinians should renounce their waring ways.
and
I think Israeli’s should renounce their waring ways.
and
I think American’s should renounce their waring ways.
Hanane | Nov 20, 2012 | 12:36pm
Thanks Eric for your effort to stay fair… My comment reflects frustration with people romanticizing with the terrorist state of Israel. There is no disrespect so far, and I am not entitled and have no time anymore to educate anyone, although your standards of education maybe different than mine;). Clearing misconceptions is an exhausting task with people who are spoonfed with propaganda…
I don’t understand how can anyone believe that the terrorist apartheid state is defending itself when THEY ARE THE OCCUPIER? They are murdering children, babies heads are blown, their bodies are burned, they have to collect their body parts to bury them… This is the highest disrespect! But this isn’t the first time americans will supports such acts, history is full of examples.
Last thing, thank you for the article, I like it.
Eric Blauer | Nov 20, 2012 | 12:46pm
Hanane,
I understand you frustration to the degree that a white, male, post-9/11, christian, over-taxed for a warmonger nation of advantage and privilege can.
We bomb the hell out of anything that moves if it smells of jihad if we got right intel or not. We rule the ruins.
I still think pro-Palestinians need to help us understand the support of Hamas.
Help us understand how “occupying” should result in terrorism.
I ask honestly.
“Every war … with all its ordinary consequences … the murder with the justifications of its necessity and justice, the exaltation and glorifications of military exploits, the worship of the flag, the patriotic sentiments … and so on, does more in one year to pervert men’s minds than thousands of robberies, murders, and arsons perpetrated during hundreds of years by individual men under the influence of passion.”— Leo Tolstoy
Hanane | Nov 20, 2012 | 1:06pm
Eric,
Your question is tricky ( I don’t want to say dishonest)... Did you mean “how terrorism ( not just occupation) should result in terrorism?” and even when you adjust your question you still gonna compare oranges to WATERMELONS.
Eric Blauer | Nov 20, 2012 | 1:35pm
What a mess of confusion.
I can see why people just put their hands in the air and say these folks are going to kill each other one way or the other, some day, they have been at it for decades.
As far as I can understand, the conflict was originated by arabic push for independence and statehood in Palestine, which resulted in the igniting of violent back and forth activities. Then you get the nation of Israel, the redefinition of borders, the area of being granted is protested by the Palestinians and on and on it goes, give and take, talk and break talks, new lines on a map, conflict, bombings, rockets, failed peace treaties and a pile of violence that adds up to decades of bad blood, sanctions and blockades to prevent arms from flowing into the region, suffering of refugees, the wall, impoverishment of Palestinians And here we are…am I wrong?
Sam Fletcher | Nov 20, 2012 | 1:35pm
This is all related to America’s deep hunger for oil. It’s hard to believe some people in America are coming up with “christian” reasons to keep this ugly, racist proxy war going.
Eric Blauer | Nov 20, 2012 | 1:37pm
Lot’s of oil in Palestine?
Hanane | Nov 20, 2012 | 3:14pm
Eric you’re taking shortcuts here… Here is the beginning:
For centuries there was no such conflict. In the 19th century the land of Palestine was inhabited by a multicultural population – approximately 86 percent Muslim, 10 percent Christian, and 4 percent Jewish – living in peace.
Zionism
In the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as Zionists, they represented an extremist minority of the Jewish population. Their goal was to create a Jewish homeland, and they considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine.
At first, this immigration created no problems. However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine – many with the express wish of taking over the land for a Jewish state – the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, fighting broke out, with escalating waves of violence. Hitler’s rise to power, combined with Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries, led to increased Jewish immigration to Palestine, and conflict grew.
UN partition plan
Finally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land.
Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land….”
To continue reading please go here:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/
or here:
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story725.html
Joe Newby | Nov 20, 2012 | 3:44pm
@Eric, yeah, that’s news to me, too. Oil in the Gaza Strip?
Sam Fletcher | Nov 20, 2012 | 5:48pm
It is about having a loyal state in the middle east to protect “our” resources there. Its the same morally bankrupt bullshit we did all through the cold war.
Dennis | Nov 20, 2012 | 8:01pm
Hunane,
I don’t need an alternate news source, when most of our own mainstream media tilts to liberal, left-wing presentations of everything. The only reason this one is a little more balanced is because their hero Obama is standing for Israel so far.
As far as a starting point, I think you are taking a far to recent position on it. There has been conflict in that region since the times of Joshua. God originally gave the land to Israel and told them if they would worship and obey Him only they would keep it. Sadly they were stubborn, rebellious and wicked, kind of like the rest of us, and God threw them out. However He reserved the right to bring them back at His appointed time. Whatever you think of man’s part in this, 1948 was when He chose to begin the process. The Bible predicts this very current conflict and it will get worse before it gets better. No matter what we say, or declare or yell about it, God will have His way. I frequently return to Psalm 2 to regain a clear perspective on His part in all of this.
Aaron Weidert | Nov 21, 2012 | 8:25am
Ah, yes, I love it when someone starts talking about the “liberal” media. Because the Fortune 500 companies that own virtually all of the mainstream media (Viacom, GE, and Disney own the 3 major networks) are all known for their liberal bias….
Dennis | Nov 22, 2012 | 12:41pm
Statistics show a left-leaning, pro-democrat party bias on almost all the mainstream media outlets. Watching even a few minutes of MSNBC during the last 3 weeks before the elections looked like the Obama campaign. I don’t know the owners I just know what the outcome on screen is, and it is biased.
Aaron Weidert | Nov 23, 2012 | 12:47pm
Which statistics, exactly? Because a statement like that doesn’t mean much if you don’t provide them. And I guarantee can provide just as many studies, or statistics, or research indicating that there is no liberal bias to mainstream media, or even that goes as far as to suggest a conservative bias. Part of the reason for that, and part of the reason there’s such a huge argument here, is that as much of it comes down to our perceptions as it does to what is actually said. This a much more subjective argument than we’d like to admit. I’ll see if I can find a link to something online, but there’s a study Farhad Manjoo refers to in his book, “True Enough: Learning to Live in a Post-Fact Society.” In the study, they tried to write a report as objectively as possible (it may have actually been over the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I can’t remember), and then they showed it to people who identified to both sides of the conflict. Overwhelmingly, BOTH sides thought the article showed an unfair bias to the OTHER side. That’s unfortunately just how we’re wired. We all are hugely biased, but we think our own bias is much closer to an objective reality than everyone else’s bias, therefore a position that doesn’t line up with how we think is automatically labeled as biased to the other side. Basically what that means is that this argument is not at all as clear cut as you’re making it sound when you say that statistics show a liberal bias.
The other argument I would offer against there being a liberal bias to the media is the fact that conservatives have done a pretty impressive job of shifting the political center to the right over the last few decades. I’ve heard it argued (sometimes even by conservatives) that Reagan wouldn’t be electable as a Republican in today’s party. He’s not conservative enough. (In fact, there was a great article on Slate about how we basically just elected a moderate Republican from several decades ago, and I’ll link to that at the end of this post.) So even if you could factually demonstrate that the media favors Democrats, that’s still not an argument that the media is liberal. If the media was moderate/center 30-40 years ago, and Republicans have take a brisk stroll to fundy-land, it’s not the media’s fault for not going with them.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/11/obama_the_moderate_republican_what_the_2012_election_should_teach_the_gop.html
Add Your Comment